Wednesday, May 2, 2007

KoBrahs Intro....!



Chitpavan Konkanastha Brahmins

Classification Brahmin

Subdivisions -
Significant populations in Maharashtra

Languages Marathi, Chitpavani Konkani
Religions Hinduism

The Chitpavan, Chitpawan, or Konkanastha Brahmins (कोकणस्थ ब्राम्हण) are a brahmin community of Konkan, the coastal belt of western Maharashtra. Sometimes they are affectionately referred to as Kobra (short for KO-nkanastha BRA-hmin). (Since Konkanastha is actually a general geographic label, meaning "Native of Konkan" in Sanskrit, the name Chitpavan is preferable. In this text, however, the names Chitpavan, Konkanastha and Kobra have been used interchangeably.
The Chitpavan Brahmins first achieved prominence in the early 1700s, when a Chitpavan Brahmin from the Konkan, Balaji Vishwanath Bhat, was appointed to the post of Peshwa, or Prime Minister during the reign of Chhattrapati Shahu Maharaj in 1713, beginning a period of Peshwa influence in the Maratha court. Historians concur on the fact that the Maratha kingdom subsequently reached its zenith during the age of the Peshwas. The rise of Peshwa influence coincided with and contributed to Chitpavan Brahmins gaining prominence in the Maratha social and political hierarchy, hitherto controlled by the more conservative Brahmins in the mainland of Maharashtra.
In the late 19th and 20th centuries, the Chitpavan community of Maharashtra can be credited with contributing people of great stature to the Indian nation. The Indian freedom struggle in Maharashtra identifies itself with the direction and sacrifices made by Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Gopal Krishna Gokhale (of the Servants of India society and more famously, mentor to Mahatma Gandhi in his formative years), Gopal Ganesh Agarkar, Justice Ranade and Vinayak Damodar Savarkar. Maharishi Dhondo Keshav Karve, a great Indian social reformer, supported the education of women and organized associations to emancipate Hindu widows by promoting the cause of their remarriage. In the area of art, theatre and cinema, stalwarts like Dadasaheb Phalke have contributed significantly in the Indian cultural arena. These and many others from the community have helped them establish themselves on the national stage. In Maharashtra, the traditional land of the Chitpavan Brahmins, their cultural contribution has been immense. They are also well known for their liberal mindset towards society, politics and culture.
The origins of the Chitpavan community in the Konkan is shrouded in myth with no conclusive or contemporary evidence to prove it. According to legend, the first Chitpavans were washed ashore on the Konkan coast (See, History & Theology). Though the myth is undated, it is likely that this would have been in the post-Vedic period. Chitpavans were internalized into the Indian Hindu society and climbed up the social ladder to be accepted as Brahmins. The well established Brahmins in that era, and indeed, in a more contemporary era, believed that only the direct descendants of Vedic Rishis could be considered Brahmins. This may not be the correct Vedic interpretation, since migration across varnas was not considered an impossibility during the Vedic period. In the early post-Vedic period, as long as a person demonstrated the knowledge and skills to perform priestly duties, he could be considered a Brahmin. Hence, the word "Brahmin" which means "the Purest Being". The Chitpavans, owing to their external origins, therefore, were considered by some as 'naturalized' or 'impure' Brahmins, a factor which led to their being discriminated against, in later periods.
Though the origins of the Chitpavan Brahmins in India are a mystery, some have argued that the Bhumihar Brahmins of Eastern U.P. and in the state of Bihar, Mohyal Brahmins in the state of Punjab, Namboothiri Brahmins in Kerela, Havyak Brahmins of Andhra Pradesh, Anavil Brahmins of Gujarat, and Kumaoni Brahmins of Uttarakhand share the same lineage and are similar to Chitpawans in custom, tradition, practices, temperament and hold Bhagvan Parshuram in high esteem. No records have been presented to prove this common lineage.
The rise of the Chitpavans to an influential position came with its share of controversies, largely founded on theological interpretations of the Hindu religion. When Balaji Vishvanath Bhat was appointed as Peshwa, he took up a position that was traditionally held by the established Brahmins of Maharashtra (Deshastha Brahmins). This deviation from protocol may have antagonized many. In his era and since then, many have argued the validity of the appointment of a naturalized Brahmin for the post of Peshwa. Be that as it may, the Peshwas united Maratha forces and in a matter of few decades, spread the fledgling Maratha kingdom and its sphere of influence across India. For the first time in the history of India was a flag of a Deccan kingdom flown over the city of Attock, now in Pakistan. The period of Maratha glory waned, however, after the disastrous battle of Panipat in 1759. One of the last Peshwas, Peshwa Nana Sahib participated in the failed Indian Mutiny of 1857.
History & Theology
Origins
How to tell a Chitpavan
A typical Chitpavan is usually fair of complexion, has a sharp nose and steel-grey eyes. He can be called handsome, as handsome as Veer Savarkar, the pride of Chitpavans. Nanasaheb Peshwa (18th century), from a portrait that is available may be called best specimen of Chitpavan manhood. Nanasaheb's son Vishwasrao, when 18, was killed in the Third Battle of Panipat (1761). Kashiraj has described him as the most handsome among the Marathas; even in death he looked so handsome that Ahmedshah Abdali ordered his dead body to be brought before him - in order to have a look at his handsome person. The Chitpavans cannot be classed among the well-built communities of Maharashtra. Chitpavan girls possess good physical features but tend to look pale. A few historians and anthropologists are of the view that the Chitpavans came to India from Egypt, while others say they came from Greece. The Chitpavans are generally extremists, hence their behaviour is full of contradiction. A Chitpavan may sacrifice his life for his country but he will not easily part with his purse. That is why perhaps the Chitpavan community has produced a number of fanatics but only one saint, Vinobha Bhave. Chitpavan's are generally assumed to be tidy, clean and industrious.
Extreme poverty of the Konkan region has left an indelible stamp on their general physique. A great many Chitpavans tend to be physically stunted. It may come as a surprise to many, but Veer Savarkar, kingpin of the plot to assassinate Mahatma Gandhi, stood all of his five feet and two inches. They tend to be of various complexions varying from swarthy to fair. Eyecolor also varies from drak-brown to light-gray. Nanasahib, the last Peshwa of the 1857 mutinee, was disfigured by smallpox and was of scandolously simple tastes which never ceased to astonish his English guests who expected, naturally, a more finished leader ('Devil's wind' by Manohar Malgonkar.)
See also
• Brahmins
• Forward Castes
Eminent/Famous Konkanastha Brahmins
Literature/Scholars
Vaman R. Barve (Ambedem Valpoi Goa Freedom fighter)
• Vasant Sathe (Ex. Union Cabinet Minister of India )
• G. N. Dandekar (Go Ni Dandekar)
• Prin. V.K. Joag (Modern Education Society)
• Irawati Karve
• Hari Narayan Apte
• Gangadhar Gadgil
• Shivram Ganesh Barve(satode valpoi Goa ..eminent freedom fighter
• Shri. Ja. Joshi
• Raghunath D. Joshi, Writer and Critic of Indian Philosophy
• Na. Si. Phadke
• Malti Bedekar, feminist and Marathi novel writer
• Pandurang Vaman Kane (Bharat Ratna awardee)
• S N Pendse (Shri Nā)
• Vi Ka Rajwade (Itihasacharya Rajwade)
• Vasant Kanetkar
• Vinda Karandikar (Jnanapeeth Awardee 2003)
• Madhav Vaze
• Vishram Bedekar
• Krishnaji Keshav Damle(Keshavsoot)
• Wrangler Paranjpe
• Durga Bhagwat, Writer, Scholar and Critic of Indological studies
• Vivekanand Godbole, Historian (author of ``Subhey Kalyan", ``Hindu Sanskruti Anee Kalyan")
• Ashok Gadgil, Scientist with LBL.
• Kedar Joshi, Superultramodern Science / Philosophy
• Narendra Karmarkar, renowned computer scientist at Bell labs who invented his own algorithm for linear programming for which he won ACM's Paris Kanellakis Award
• Navakanta Bhat, Swarnajayanti Fellowship, 2004-2005, IISc
• Dr.Prabhakara Joshi, Yakshagana Talamaddale performer, Critic, Scholar, Educator
• Daji Nagesh Apte, Sanskrit/Jyotish scholar
• Prakash M. Apte, Eisenhower Exchange Fellow USA 1988, Town Planner of new capital of Gujarat.
• Shreeram Abhyankar
• Arvind (chitale)dixit
Politics/Social Reform =
• Narayan Thosar (The only saint of Kokanastha origin and guru of Shivaji Maharaj known as Samarth Ramdas)
• Achyutrao Patwardhan
• Anant Kanhere
• Bal Gangadhar Tilak
• Balukaka Kanitkar
• Bhai Vaidya
• Bhausaheb Patankar
• Chandrashekhar Hari Joshi
• Chintamanrao Appasaheb Patwardhan(Padmabhushan, ruler of Sangli)
• Dhondo Keshav Karve
• Raghunath Keshav Khadilkar (Union Minister of Labour and Rehabilitation, Member of Parliament)
• Veer Savarkar Father of 'Hindutva',
• R. N. Mandlik{Ramabhau Mandlik} (IS THIS PERSON A KONKANASTHA BRAHMIN ??) : {Yes!! This person may be CHITTPAVAN as the original surname of some Mandlik s is PARANJAPE (Chittapavan). Paranjape surname consists of 3 surnames PARANJAPE, DEO and MANDLIK.}
• Ganu Vaidya
• Godse Naturam Assassin of Mahatma Gandhi and paramour of Veer Savarkar (see above)
• Gopal Ganesh Agarkar
• Gopal Krishna Gokhale
• Gurudeo Ranade
• Kakasaheb Gadgil
• Krantiveer Chapekar
• Krushnaji Gopal Karve
• Laxmibai Tilak
• Mahadev Govind Ranade
• N. V. Tilak (Reverend Tilak)
• N.G.Gore
• Narubhau Limaye
• Sane Guruji
• Pandita Ramabai
• Peshawas
• Raghunath Dhondo Karve
• Ramray Kelkar Maharaj
• S.M. Joshi
• Senapati Bapat
• Shankarrao Soman
• Shivram Paranjape (Kaal Karte Paranjape)
• Shivajirao Patwardhan{Padmashri}
• Sudhir Joshi
• Swami Swaroopananda
• Vasant Bapat
• Vinayak Damodar Savarkar (Swatantryaveer Savarkar)
• Vinoba Bhave
• Vitthalrao Gadgil
• Wamanrao Joshi
• Babarao Bhide
• Nathuram Godse (Martyr and Patriot)
Industry
• Patwardhan (Bank of Maharashtra)
• C.V. Joag (Bank of Maharashtra)
• Chitale Bandhu (makers of fine sweets)
• Dandekars (CAMLIN)
• P. N. Gadgil (Bullionaires since 1832)
• Waman Hari Pethe (Bullionaires since last 100 years)
• Jayant Joshi (publishers of Pravasi Diary)
• Sathe (Sathe biscuits and chocolates co.)
• Mr. Mukund Bhogale MD, Nirlep Industries
Mr Harshvardhan Chitale - EX MD of Honeywell Pune.
Sport
• Ajit Agarkar (Indian National Cricket team)
• D. B. Deodhar (Cricket Maharshi Deodhar)
• Hemant Kanitkar(Indian National Cricket team)
• Hrishikesh Kanitkar(Indian National Cricket team)
• Harsha Bhogle(International Cricket Analyst, Commentator, Television Host)
Medicine
• Anandibai Joshi, first woman doctor of India
• Ajit Phadke, urologist and surgeon of Bombay
• RV Sathe, physician and Vice-Chancellor, University of Bombay
• Ravi Bapat, surgeon at the K.E.M. Hospital
• Sudhakar Sane, noted Surgeon and Forensic Pathologist
• Santosh Karmarkar Pediatric surgeon, at Mumbai, Maharashtra
• Govind Datar Pediatric Surgeon, at Pune, Maharashtra
Information Technology
• Ms Shaku Atre (Founder of Atre Group Inc and data mining expert)
• Achyut Godbole (Udog Ratna, IT Entereprenur and authoirty over IT)
Cinema/Theatre
• Kashinath Ghanekar
• Aditi Govitrikar
• Archana Joglekar
• Asawari Joshi
• Ashvini Bhave-Bopardikar
• Atul Parchure
• Bhakti Barve
• Chittaranjan Kolhatkar
• Dadasaheb Phalke
• Madhuri Dixit-Nene
• Mohan Agashe
• Mohan Gokhale
• Mohan Joshi
• Dr.Girish Oak
• Nishigandha Wad-Deulkar
• Pradeep Bhide
• Prashant Damle
• Sai Paranjape
• Sanjay Mone
• Rima Lagoo
• Vidyadhar Gokhale
• Vikram Gokhale
• Shriram Lagoo
• Sudhir Joshi
• Vikram Phadnis
• Govind Ballal Deval (Natyacharya)
• Vishnudas Bhave
• Nachiket and Jayoo Patwardhan
• Kiran Karmarkar
• Rakesh Bapat (Hindi Movie: Tum Bin)
• Milind Soman
• Mylene Jampanoi-Soman
• Kavita Lad-Medhekar
Music
• Pandit Vishnu Digambar Paluskar
• Pandit Vishnu Narain Bhatkhande
• Ramkrishnabua Vaze(Vazebua)
• Sudhir Phadke
• Meena Joshi
• Shreedhar Phadke
• Vasant Sathe
• Gajanan Watve
• Yashawant Dev
• Veena Sahasrabudhe
• Arun Date
• Shaila Datar
• Sanjeev Abhyankar
• Bhakti Barve
• Ashwini Bhide-Deshpande
• Asha Khadilkar
Typical Last Names
The List of Chitpavan last names enumerates all the last names found in the Chitpavan community. "Achari", "Acharya","Barve","Dixit","Patwardhan","Katke","Kapse","Kaketkar","Vyas","Puranik", "Sahastrabudhe","Bakshi",are some of the surname which were given as per the profession or as a "UPADHI", "REWARD", "BAKSHISI". This happened in between seventeen and eighteen's ,when Chitpavan community was at rising stage , they joined in the "ARMY" and won various territories, won "Debate" and become "Sahastrabudhe" ,learn Vedanta and become "Pandit", "Acharya","Dixit", took too many rewards and become "Patwardhan","Thorat","Bakshi" . Similar to this according to the occupation , "Achari","Devdhar", "Swayampaki","Wagh", "Heer", "Pandive", "Reshmekhar", "Pathekar" , "Sukhadkar","Harbude","Khangle","Khule","Rajwade","Mahabal","Rajmachikar","Nagarkar", and lot many Surname's were given as per the profession or as a "UPADHI" to Chitpavan community. This may or may not be in use today. For a more detailed description go to Typical Last Names
Typical First Names
Male names
Amod Amrith Amol
• Aditya
• Amay/Amey/Ameya
• Anand
• Anant
• Ashok
• Bhargav
• Chaitanya
• Chandrashekhar
• Chintamani
• Gajanan
• Gopal
• Hrishikesh
• Kedar
• Mandar
• Manish
• Omkar
• Parshuram
• Prashant
• Ranjan
• Rohan
• Shravan
• Shreyash
• Shrikant
• Shrirang
• Sourabh
• Swapnil
• Tushar
• Shridhar
• Shantanu
• Saurabh
• Deepak
• Vinayak
• Ballal
• Prasad
Female names
• Aditi
• Ashwini
• Ketaki
• Manjiri
• Namrata
• Prajakta
• Purnima
• Shruti
• Vidya
• Janhavi
• Medha
• Vanita
• Nirmala
• Vaishali

115 comments:

Unknown said...

Thats tooooo much generalization of one community.Doesn't make any sense.Your 'extremist' logic needs to be corrected.On similar line all Punjabis can be called Terrirists keeping in mind ill-famous Punjab problem which ruined the Govts. in 80s.

Victor said...

I was indeed proud to read this article. We indeed are like that only. Great thinkers in this community should earn prominence. They should play their part in politics. Only then shall India surge ahead in a much more organized way.

प्रशांत said...

Please revise the list of Chitpawans.
(Late) Pt. V.G. Jog (violinist) popularized violin performance in Hindustani Music.
Pt. Prabhakar Jog is a well-known song violinist.
Please do add these to your list.

Vasant Kanetkar?? - Kanetkar is not a Chitpawan surname. Kanitkars are Chitpawan.
Samarth Ramadas?? - Thosar is a Deshastha surname. Same about Bhatkhande and Paluskar. We, Chitpawans should be proud of ourselves, but not overproud. Adding non-chitpawans will affect authenticity of the nice article.
All the Best.

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...

Pt.Prabhakarji Jog is not just a world-wide well-known expert violinist but is a music director also.He is really a genius musician & miraculous personality. He really deserves for Bharat-Rtana, Padma-Bhushan & Padma-Vibhushan. At present Hon'ble Violin-Ratna Pt. Prabhakarji Jog Sir is about 75 & still his programmes are evergreen & famous. His album Ganaara Violin has broken all the prvious records of instrumental cd.s.
I wish him a very very long & happy, prosperous, healthy & melodious life...!!!

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...

Hon'ble world-famous Violinist Pt.Prabhakaraji Jog Sir presented his first program when He was just of 8! Now He is about 76. He is too simple & very different from the so-called celebrities. He also accepts very low budget progarms merrily. He is quite selfless & totally devoted to violin One can not only hear the words of the song but also the perfect sentiments behind it. His touching, thrilling ,mindkam, aalaapies, taanaas etc. are simply amazing.Thousands of Millions of salutes, respects & regards to this Almighty God of Empire of violins...!!!!!

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...
Pt.Prabhakarji Jog is not just a world-wide well-known expert violinist but is a music director also.He is really a genius musician & miraculous personality. He really deserves for Bharat-Ratana, Padma-Bhushan & Padma-Vibhushan. At present Hon'ble Violin-Ratna Pt. Prabhakarji Jog Sir is about 75 & still his programmes are evergreen & famous. His album Ganaara Violin has broken all the prvious records of instrumental cd.s.
I wish him a very very long & happy, prosperous, healthy & melodious life...!!!

April 24, 2008 3:09 AM

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...

Vinay Manohar Gokhale said...
Pt.Prabhakarji Jog is not just a world-wide well-known expert violinist but is a music director also.He is really a genius musician & miraculous personality. He really deserves for Bharat-Ratana, Padma-Bhushan & Padma-Vibhushan. At present Hon'ble Violin-Ratna Pt. Prabhakarji Jog Sir is about 75 & still his programmes are evergreen & famous. His album Ganaara Violin has broken all the previous records of instrumental cd.s.
I wish him a very very long & happy, prosperous, healthy & melodious life...!!!

April 24, 2008 3:09 AM

April 24, 2008 3:40 AM

Mandar Thosar said...

Dear Prashant Uday Manohar,
Your comment about Samarth Ramdas is apt but not all 'Thosars' are Deshastha. I am a Thosar and belong to Kokanastha community.

Nishant said...

Well, The list can be much long as many other peole have also reached remarkable heights...

but still a good collection.

do you have any reference or sort of weblink or book by which you came to know that konkansths are not native?

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Unknown said...

you guys are pathetic,nathuram godse was a deshastha brahmin living near satara.
first you captured all our rights by crook then you wickedly drove away all deshasthas wickedly from the peshwai this was the limit of your crueality and now you are claiming our people! atleast feel a little ashamed of yourselves and commit suicides all of you.

Unknown said...

Nathuram Godse was a Chitpavan from Pune. Bhatkande and Paluskar(Gadgil)also were Chitpavans. Ramdas was a Deshastha and Kanetkar was a Karhade brahmin

Anonymous said...

KOKANASTHA BRAHMINS GIRLS GOT VERY SHARP MIND & LOOKED VERY GORGOIOUS

Hrishikesh said...

@Swarup :

Well said...the only reason for this is : KOKANASTHA BRAHMINS GIRLS don't sell their flesh for Money.

I haven't seen a girl from this community engaging in kissing scene or worst than that in films. Nor they expose themselves.

People say Ishwarya Rai is the most beautiful women in India. I don't agree at all. She is a sold product. She had done lots of kissing scenes/exposes in movies. She works for money and she can sell herself for money too. Most of the actress like her are said to be White Collar Prostitutes. The only difference is that bad looking prostitutes work in BAR and the actresses like Aishwarya Rai, Raveena Tandon, Rekha work in MOVIE. Two things are common -1) Both types work for money 2)Both of them sell their flesh for money.

I pray God that Marathi girls do not engage in such bad scenes. I am proud to be Kokanstha and in fact will marry only Kokanastha girl.

Hrishikesh said...

sorry for the last part : the only part - I would like to modify is the last sentence " I will marry only a Kokanstha girl"

I know this is a bit rude to girls of other castes. So I will change it to the below

"I will only marry a girl whom I love the most(may she be from any caste) and who is clean at heart and nature(not a sold product like hindi actress)"

CULTURE is the thing that makes a big difference between good people and bad people.

I hope you understand now!

Unknown said...

i liked your article. it was definitely thought provoking. i feel its extremely imp for any community to know its history so that they feel pride in being part of that community and it gives the community a path to think and progress ahead as a group to make a mark. i would love to know more about kokanstha origins if u have some info. good wk, god speed.

Hrishikesh said...

Hey Amit....whats up...where are you from? I am from Mumbai....I like to make friends..I am Kokanstha too....hope you won't deny my friendship :-)

Amit said...

Hello Mr. Author,

Before listing the name Of Narayan Thosar as Guru of Shivaji please read the histroty again. Chatrapati & Narayan thosar seldom met each other.There is no single evidence that Narayan Thosar was guru of Shivaji Maharaj. He was not guru of chhatrapati & mentioning peshvas success don't forget peshvas get all ready made dynasty & all 4 muslim sulanates was almost finished that time. So never compare peshvas to Maharaj. They were never accepted as ruler they were serving Maratha kingdom.

bandopant said...

Narayan Thosar (Ramdas Swami) was not Kokanastha. He was Kulkarni Deshstha.
But THOSAR is Kokanastha.

Unknown said...

I think its high time konkanstha must hide their identity if they want to live happily in this country. Why do they all not change their surnames and adopt surnames like patil or desai? Its perfectly legalin India

Unknown said...

You people are fools who compare greatness of people by casts.

People are great by their on virtue and not by cast.

Unknown said...

You people are fools who compare greatness of people by casts.

People are great by their on virtue and not by cast.

Manas.....powered by mind said...

I am not chitpawan.I am Maratha.but i had met and in fact worked with chitpawans.I think chitpawans are harworking.

They are studius and enjoy their life in their own way.

Anonymous said...

It is a very interesting and impressive list. However, one input is that you have added Nathuram Godse to the list. It is true he was also Kokanastha, but he has not made the community proud. If this list is intended to increase the Kokanastha pride, then Nathuram Godse needs to go. By the way, his name appears twice in the list.

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Rohan said...

@Hrishikesh

I dont think that any kind of generalisation would be right...Over here you have stated 'KOKANASTHA BRAHMINS GIRLS don't sell their flesh for Money'...well then what about Madhuri dixit...and to be very honest..I dont find any difference between their behaviour and the behaviour of the other non brahmin people

mandar said...

@BS

So according to you, the people from your caste were first thrown out from the Judaic lands and then you were kicked out from all moral and political authority of Maharashtra from the 60s onwards...


Valid question to think about: Why are you being thrown out of everywhere???

Maybe because of your Arrogance???

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Amit said...

Hey BS Nice to read your Love & desperation towards your community. I just want to make note on your point
Just as India was what it was because of the British, and the glory of medieval India was due to the Moghuls. And the profundity of ancient India was due to the Aryans.

It is Sad that you praise the peope which Indians took it as their black past specially Moguls & British.....I know you never had patriotic but atleast dont make such statements.....we know how tolerates these rulers was towards our religion & culture. Keep your love towards your so called community & think before calling Shivaji as outsider at least he originate from this country.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

Dear Sirs
You have wrongly mentioned Mr. Sawarkar as the kingpin in Gandhi murder.
It could never be proved and Mr. Sawarkar suffered all his life in the independent India for which he sacrificed all his life.
Please remove his name. The person who assassinated Gandhi was also a Konkanasth Brahmin. He did not run away from the scene and offered to be arrested. Please put Natthu Ram Godses name in place of Sawarkar.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

Please add Madhuri Dixit, Pt, Ram Marathe and Usha Kiran Marathe in the list of artists. There are several singers in the new generation such as Aswini Bhide, Uttara Kelkar, who also need mention.
To best of my knowledge, C.D Deshmukh was also a Konkanashta Brahmin.

DSS MBA IT VIRUS said...

hey the info is correct India is not because of British but british progress was dependent on India ...kobras are always great

Rohan said...

@BS

Musalman parvadla, Gujarati parvadla, Marwadi parvadla, pan Kokanastha Bramnala yeu deu naka.

Unknown said...

dear Maharashtrians
Instead of categorising ourselves on basis of castes why don't we consider ourselves as one Marathi speaking people irrespective of our gotras varnas kuls just like the other languages community we will really be stong as Unity is strength scuffle contradictions amongst us will really make a laughing stock of us by others

Aneesh J said...

@amit: learn ENGLISH before you type around here. how the hell does one figure out what you mean?

Aneesh J said...

@amit: learn ENGLISH before you type around here. how the hell does one figure out what you mean?

Aneesh J said...

@amit: learn ENGLISH before you type around here. how the hell does one figure out what you mean?

Aneesh J said...

@author: "That is why perhaps the Chitpavan community has produced a number of fanatics but only one saint, Vinobha Bhave"
Who was Gopal Krishna Gokhale?! (mentor of Gandhi. You mentioned it yourself.)
which trash site did you pick that quote up from? each community has it's share of extremes and moderates. you can't generalise like that.

Neelam said...

I am a kokanasth bramhin but i ma not proud to be one.i would prefer to marry a guy from a lower class as they are far better than bramhins.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

how old are you? What are your expectations? I would like to suggest you some seriously good boys as I was a professor in UDCT Matunga, now ICT. Several of my past students who might belong to SC ST are eligible bachelors.

Neelam said...

thank you Prof. V.C.Malshe. but i have already chosen a guy fro me. he is from lower cast.and i am really proud of him and eager to get married to him and get rid of this bramhinism.

Rohan said...

@ Aneesh J

Well Said man!!! "That is why perhaps the Chitpavan community has produced a number of fanatics but only one saint, Vinobha Bhave"

I have been with these people and most of them are fanatics...

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

It is unfair to call Konkanasth Brahmins as Fanatics. They are Committed people

Reflections Of Vishal V Kale said...

You have missed out on "Kale"

We are kokanasth brahmans from Golap - Ratnagiri.

Vishal Kale

nirad said...

Good article.
I am a deshastha brahmin and I would like to say kobras have lost their virtue now.
You will find many kobra girls in inter caste marraige and even kumar ketkar endorsed that. shameful.
Such acts will diminish our psychological clout over others and strategic advantage.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

Dear Nirad
My father, who was a doctor, told me that our community may suffer serious consequences of genetic damage if we keep breeding within. He advised me to get girls from as far as possible (not marrying within community)
As per his advise, my elder son married a Brazilian (Portuguese) girl and second married a Deshasth brahmin girl. It is to protect the future generations from genetic damage that in family breeding brings in. There are certain small communities who do not give away girls out side or bring girls from out side. The first sign of in family breeding is the children are born deaf. Because they can not listen, they can also not speak. To avoid any other de generations, please marry outside the community , some thing that may not have happened in last 1000 years.
So , do not feel any thing wrong in Konkanasth girls marrying out side. Even the boys should do that.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

"but Veer Savarkar, kingpin of the plot to assassinate Mahatma Gandhi"is a blatant lie. It was a purely adulterated view of a nationalist who suffered infinitely for the independence.
V.C.Malshe

peterparker - Servant of BHAGWAN PARASHURAMA said...

Wow, an article where PESHWAS empire is being ridiculed. And the debate on deshastha and konkansthas, well, I am a deshastha yajurvedi brahman, but I feel proud for PESHWA BRAHMAN EMPIRES. It is simple, for all of us BRAHAMNISM is pramukh. And there is no rivalry between deshastha and konkanstha, that's all created by these mahars, useless caste who wants everything, even 100% reservation for their own caste. At least, chandrasena kayastha prabhus are bettern than these mahars.

Unknown said...

Only 10-15%Brahmins (Chitpawan)are arrogant due to which the whole community has earned a bad name.I have a number of relatives who are Chitpawan and are very down to Earth and humble.My mother is one of them.

Catch2876 said...

Very interesting blog post. A very world renowned institution offering German language courses in Mumbai is filled with the names you have mentioned. Is there some sort of silent reservation in jobs for these people that almost all the staff and teachers have the last names in your list. I am not surprised by anything anymore!! Above all you will find 95% staff is Maharashtrian(probably chitpavan) which by any means is impossible in a "Cosmopolitan" city like Mumbai!!

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Unknown said...

Chitpavan Konkanastha Brahmins also speak Kannada language in Karnataka region. And I am proud to be Kannada Chitpavan Konkanastha Brahmin
This makes a sense adopting ourselves in every part of India and yet preserving our proud community.

Unknown said...

How to Identify Yajurvedi and Rugvedi koknasta ?
Is it depend on Surname?
Is surname Bhide - Yajurvedi koknasta or Rugvedi Koknasta ?

Xxx said...

dear all,

i am a armchair researcher.. amd i am intrigued by this community.. after lot of research..my conclucions are as follows ( some may say cherry picking the facts)...

1) chitpavans are ashkenazi jews from eastern europe probably from lithuania, romuva areas who migrated to konkan around 1000-2000 years ago... the reasons I state is

a) their above average intelligence stands out like askhenazi jews.
b) they have BRCA1 gene which is askhenazi gene which I read on internet by research done by tata memorial hospital doctors..
c) sonali giakwad research papers indicate pointing to the same conclusion..
d) many chitpavans have strong affininty for isreal.
e) they are referred to crypto jews on many articles in websites ..
f) they have a tendency to obfuscate and manipulate the documents to suit their own purpose.. may be they have wiped off their traces and manipulted sahaydrikhand etc to wipe out their origins,,but inside they know..they are different than the rest of indians.. maybe they even know their origins..but will not admit it or hide the truth..to suit their own benefits ( one typical characteristic of the caste..apla fayada baghane)...
h) their practical approach and hard headedness is due to unforgiving terrian of konkan.. these characteristics were imbibed in them later on..

Xxx said...

dear all,

i am a armchair researcher.. amd i am intrigued by this community.. after lot of research..my conclucions are as follows ( some may say cherry picking the facts)...

1) chitpavans are ashkenazi jews from eastern europe probably from lithuania, romuva areas who migrated to konkan around 1000-2000 years ago... the reasons I state is

a) their above average intelligence stands out like askhenazi jews.
b) they have BRCA1 gene which is askhenazi gene which I read on internet by research done by tata memorial hospital doctors..
c) sonali giakwad research papers indicate pointing to the same conclusion..
d) many chitpavans have strong affininty for isreal.
e) they are referred to crypto jews on many articles in websites ..
f) they have a tendency to obfuscate and manipulate the documents to suit their own purpose.. may be they have wiped off their traces and manipulted sahaydrikhand etc to wipe out their origins,,but inside they know..they are different than the rest of indians.. maybe they even know their origins..but will not admit it or hide the truth..to suit their own benefits ( one typical characteristic of the caste..apla fayada baghane)...
h) their practical approach and hard headedness is due to unforgiving terrian of konkan.. these characteristics were imbibed in them later on..

Unknown said...

Its good to ve liberal views but be proud about what you are. Its again very nice to marry a person who u like irrespective of caste. So u have fixed your opinion that non brahmins are better people.... Anyways All the best for your married life.

PRAVIN S LIMAYE said...

I am proud to be a Konkanastha Brahmin. And it pains me to say that I feel India is not our place to be anymore. We will never get what we truly deserve whilst we are living in India.

It is now better for us to work towards getting our families to move out of India. Once you've come out of India, you'll notice the enormous difference in the quality of life. Things are not twisted (at least in the US, UK) as they are in India. Life is simpler and more enriching out here.

Others may have differing opinions. If you are currently having a good life in India, then you were probably better off to start with.

PRAVIN S LIMAYE said...

I am proud to be a Konkanastha Brahmin. And it pains me to say that I feel India is not our place to be anymore. We will never get what we truly deserve whilst we are living in India.

It is now better for us to work towards getting our families to move out of India. Once you've come out of India, you'll notice the enormous difference in the quality of life. Things are not twisted (at least in the US, UK) as they are in India. Life is simpler and more enriching out here.

Others may have differing opinions. If you are currently having a good life in India, then you were probably better off to start with.

Anonymous said...

This is a very interesting Blog on Konkanastha Bramhins. I have always been intrigued by the rivalry between the two Bramhin Sects, the Konkanastha and Deshastha bramhins seems to always be at each others throats. i have witnessed too many jokes doing the rounds in both sects about how bad either of them are and almost all are in bad taste. I am a Gowd Saraswat Bramhin from Goa and have friends from both the above communities, and find them to be intelligent and resourceful and hardworking honest people. Only one thing i must mention here is that in terms of richness of food both leave much to be desired and can be a bit miserly, imagine great tasting food being served with tea spoons at marriages!!! rest all seems to be great.

Great share and i got to know a great deal more about the Konkanastha... Cheers!

Chitpavan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chitpavan said...

Read latest books on research of Origins of Chitpavan Brahmins by Vibhakar Lele:1. Chitpavan Konkanastha Brahmins' History [Proto- and Pre-]
2. Sarasvati River - The Ancestral Home of Chitpavan Brahmins.
Quite interesting books.

chitpavanismbyjaydixit said...

The above books referred by vibhakar lele wo is ekaranti is purely cherry picking facts to prove chitpavans are native indians.

that is not true , if you read book chitpavanism by jay dixit which is now oop, he has mentioned clear genetic research that chitpavans are from romuva lithuania and are ashkenazi jews..

one research paper from tata memorial hospital also mentions same fact they have BRCA gene called as ashkenazi gene making them prone to breast cancer..

very shrewd cunning hard headed practical above average intelligence traits are visibale in almost all chitpavans. they dont have to be taught these.. it is in their blood

Chitpavan said...

Good to know that the books mentioned are receiving attention by elitists like some readers. Do not think to join issues with disputants because it is not intennded to enter into polemics. Cherrypicking or otherwise, one could have read about genetics what has been written in the book and answered pointwise why it is cherrypicking. If someone had applied to read it seriously, without a bias for very much loved foreign origins, I think one would not have labled it the way it has been. Anyway, to each his views.Thanks for bringing the version of indigenous origins to notice on your forum. I am not an actove member of such forums.

chitpavanismbyjaydixit said...

Dear ...

I have read both the books and still stick to my stand..this is also mentioned in Graham hancock forum
their extreme genetical traits makethem impossible to be native..
their above average intelligence is a pure ashkenazi trait..
they arrived in konkan erased all their past...amalgamated in brahmin community and due to their above mentioned traits rose to the ghauts of power in deccan..
BCRA Gene identified in vaze family by tata paper is a pure ashkenazi gene
many say no account exists before 1600...why ...because it was deliberately wiped out..past was kept deliberately hazy...
many genetic studies of pure chitpavans have pointed out to their irano schythian and ashkenazi origin

Chitpavan said...

What to believe and what to choose to believe is optional for you. Your pointing to certain just few opinions held by you is cherry picking, is it not? If you can controvert each and every fact and argument provided by the author, including upon genetic studies, one can appreciate your efforts. Just saying one or two random opinions is asynchronous with good reasoning and tantamount to biased view. I have read both the books in full, gone through the details and evidence provided by the author and find your or Jay Dixit's stranded opinions just random and totally unreasonable. The author has thrown a big challenge to the neysayers and devout of the opinions like yours to disprove his findings. I came across such opinions earlier too, after I had read these books and found that there is a lot to do with anti - Chitpavan propaganda. I do not know if you are a non-chitpavan and either against the community or having fancy in foreign roots bluff. I go by the author after having read your cursory comments, and scholarlike books by other authors. A bibliography appearded in the books and I have read them all. Anyway, it is pointless to prolonged discussion with you since it is about holding an opinion and not about rigorous study of the matter. I would like to be enlightened by some scholar and not just an opinion holder.

chitpavanismbyjaydixit said...

pls refer to the vdo posted on youtube by a 7 generation chitpavan which i viewed yesterday
he and his family have 7 generation of pure chitpavan genes and have taken nat geo genetic tests.. resultscare
chitpavans are from siberia and irano sycthian origins
they dont have jewish component
they were later brahminised by local populace upn arrival
i can send link if required..

intention is to debate rationally and find out true roots of the community

Chitpavan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chitpavan said...

There is some other student who vigorously postulates Irani-Scythian roots. He is of opinion that then Vedics were spread to large territory from Indonesia to Mesopotamia. I concur with spread of vedist and Brahmins to Mesopotamia etc. Evidence given by author is Charanvyuha. There are people and the author says that there are tales the Chitpavans went from Sarasvati river on its disappearance westwards to Afghanistan etc. And in course of time they found their way to konkan. They are nor brahminicised. Even Dr Bhandarkar was against the brahmanicization propsotion. It is all imaginary. What you make of NS Rajpurohit's paper on Chitpavan ancestry? Their timeline? etc. Proposing a theory is easy but to present it with multidimensional proof, reasoning and wideranging analyses is most difficult. Admirably, the author of the two Chitpavan books appears to have done it eminently. I have not come across books like these on the subject, so well written with painstaking research! Another equally erudite book I read was by Deepak Gore, on Origins of Chitpavans. It was a really voluminous and opens our eyes to the real history behind Chitpavan origins. But I don't know where you can access it. Probably search the net for it. Regards.

Chitpavan said...

For downloading book by Deepak Gore -Origins Of Chitpavans
***
http://www.mediafire.com/file/a3alqr76te397e4

Chitpavan said...

For reading Arun Joglekar's article on Chitpavan origins:
https://www.academia.edu/9188597/CHITPAVAN_BRAHMIN_ORIGIN_AND_HISTORY

Chitpavan said...

Somali Gaikawad Kashyap paper
-
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2005-6-8-p10

Chitpavan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chitpavan said...

No doubt I am interested in their report by when I wanted to do it, it was all ...... probably, ....probably... we are not certain but.... type of statement. Case of a single family is not at all a true demographic average. Also there are questions about the genetic linkage to peoples and places in haplotype linking studies. Many of these points the author has raised and appear true. Genetics is a fledgling science and with statistical methods, it is like sephological predictions! What about there being scenarios like a) both siberians and Chitpavans, if at had a common genetics, came from some other land altogether; b) They might as well have went to Siberia from India?
Also the group genetic studies of all the people in the world on a very extensive large scale according to each settled group etc.have not been carried out. Whatever studies
We find are on a sparce sample. What credence for a study that has not even 1% of any group population studied? Again which Siberians? There are many folks there and now the lot must have been mixed up too much because of Russians sent there since Communist times began. Can we say that any one group is endogamous wholesale? We understand humankind originated in Africa. What is the reason behind this derivation? Some kind of assumption. Have you read Gaekwad paper? Read it pl to find the preposterous conclusion that Chitpavans and marathas are related because their rise from Shivaji's times. Is it correct view historically? It is absolutely a biases paper. Further where is proof that Chitpavans came from a certain land like Jay postulates. Why not Askenazis having emigrated to where they are from where Chitpavans were. Again Jewish religion is just a few millennia old. There were no Jews before that. How comes there were asjenazi Jews in olden times before that?
Again what proof is there that Chitpavans are above average intelligent? Are not other humans equally intelligent, on the average? Has any Chitpavan bagged even a single prize like the noble? There are apparently many Jewish persons having top honours in science! Albert Einstein included! Are the Palestinians, the Israelite and Askenazis different in Jewish ancestry? Any proof? ....... there are any number of such questions. Jay should have understood before opening the Pandora's box of genetics in trying to ascertain Chitpavan origins based upon a totally imperfect unreliable haplotype studies. Are you aware what hue and cry Indian SC and ST are making for your supposedly immature determination of Chitpavan roots, as well as other Brahmins and higher castes? They want you to go to Siberia, Iran, or Europe or wherever your forefathers came from. When making any statements in relation to groups in India, one has to be very careful. Today Chitpavans do not have a clout like some other castes, Maratha etc have. Otherwise there would be a huge backlash against Jay and the likes of him. Read Somali Gaikawad and Kashyap paper on Maratha, Deshastha Brahmins, Dhangar communities DNA. One may put forth a view only if it is socially harmless. I read somewhere that human population was just shy of a million about 8-10 thousand years ago. If all were derived from Africanus what great discovery saying this is a group's origin or that? What surity of no interminglings? How the DNA of maternal and paternal sides concurrently tell is again a most impoertanr question. I think discussing it on this forum is water of our times. I would be happy if some intelligent scholar can take up thecsaid Chitpavan books and write critically on every point therein with, PROOF and no speculation or just an opinion.
Thanks anyway. I subscribe to the views in the said books as the best available option, in view of the more than abundant proof and reasoning.

Xxx said...

DNA Analysis

Dr. Jay Dixit investigated the origin of Chitpavans using genetic analyses including that of mitochondrial DNA, a first for the Chitpavan community, in 2002-03. The genetic samples of more than 20 Chitpavans of different surnames indicate northern European origins for both male and female Chitpavans. They were probably residents of northern Europe about 2000 years ago, that is at the beginning of the Christian Era. The findings of the genetic study have conclusively disproved several ancient beliefs about Chitpavans. Dr. Dixit has presented the findings in his comprehensive book "Chitpavanism", along with extensive details about the history and culture as well as achievements of Chitpavans.

A 2005 study conducted by Sonali Gaikwad and VK Kashyap for National DNA Analysis Center, Central Forensic Science Laboratory, Kolkata, suggests that the Chitpavans may have roots outside of India, in either Iran or Turkey. The authors state that the Chitpavan were amalgamated and Brahminized at a late date in the Indian society.

“ Chitpavan brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later amalgamation by Maratha... ”
Interestingly, in 2004, the genetic analyses of several human bodies from the 9th century mass grave discovered at Roopkund, a lake at 5054 m (16500 ft) in the Himalayas of Uttaranchal's Garhwal region have shown presence of genetic mutations which are specific to Chitpavan Brahmins. The National Geographic-led investigation also involved scientists from Universities of Heidelberg, Oxford, Delhi, Deccan College, Pune, as well as Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad, India. It seems many Chitpavan Brahmins were part of the unfortunate entourage of several hundred people buried in the lake due to hailstorm. Incidentally, the location of Roopkund does not fall on any trade route or pilgrimage. How and why Chitpavans went to the Roopkund area is still a mystery. Roopkund's skeletons were featured in a National Geographic documentary "Riddles of The Dead: Skeleton Lake".

Xxx said...

DNA Analysis

Dr. Jay Dixit investigated the origin of Chitpavans using genetic analyses including that of mitochondrial DNA, a first for the Chitpavan community, in 2002-03. The genetic samples of more than 20 Chitpavans of different surnames indicate northern European origins for both male and female Chitpavans. They were probably residents of northern Europe about 2000 years ago, that is at the beginning of the Christian Era. The findings of the genetic study have conclusively disproved several ancient beliefs about Chitpavans. Dr. Dixit has presented the findings in his comprehensive book "Chitpavanism", along with extensive details about the history and culture as well as achievements of Chitpavans.

A 2005 study conducted by Sonali Gaikwad and VK Kashyap for National DNA Analysis Center, Central Forensic Science Laboratory, Kolkata, suggests that the Chitpavans may have roots outside of India, in either Iran or Turkey. The authors state that the Chitpavan were amalgamated and Brahminized at a late date in the Indian society.

“ Chitpavan brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later amalgamation by Maratha... ”
Interestingly, in 2004, the genetic analyses of several human bodies from the 9th century mass grave discovered at Roopkund, a lake at 5054 m (16500 ft) in the Himalayas of Uttaranchal's Garhwal region have shown presence of genetic mutations which are specific to Chitpavan Brahmins. The National Geographic-led investigation also involved scientists from Universities of Heidelberg, Oxford, Delhi, Deccan College, Pune, as well as Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad, India. It seems many Chitpavan Brahmins were part of the unfortunate entourage of several hundred people buried in the lake due to hailstorm. Incidentally, the location of Roopkund does not fall on any trade route or pilgrimage. How and why Chitpavans went to the Roopkund area is still a mystery. Roopkund's skeletons were featured in a National Geographic documentary "Riddles of The Dead: Skeleton Lake".

Xxx said...

The tests showed two men of the family carried the gene, apart from Vaze and Peshve, having inherited it from the maternal side of Vaze's family, the Bhaves. The seven Bhave family members to have died of the disease so far have all been women. They died between 1972-2011, two of them after dual episodes of cancer.

The mother and daughter have a sub-type of the cancer-causing BRCA gene, called Ashkenazi, generally associated with Jews of East Europe. "Konkanastha Brahmins are now known to be more susceptible to hereditary cancer caused by BRCA genes," Vaze notes.

Xxx said...

Re: THE Gene Matlock????
Author: gene douglas ()
Date: February 04, 2003 06:57PM
Dear Pat, I begged the publisher of my "The Last Atlantis Book You'll Ever Have to Read" not to list me as also a linguist and an archeologist, for I have no degree in those fields. However, I did receive a B.A. degree in Spanish and Mexican history from what was then "Mexico City College" in December 1951. It is now called, "The University of the Americas" and is presently located in the city of Puebla Mexico.

DNA evidence has proven that the Hindu Brahmin group called "Chitpavan" and the Ashkenazi Jews have similar DNA. Also, the East Siberian Yakuts, Saka, and Baryut are similarly linked with the Hindus of Northern India. You can read about the "Chitpavan" yourself on the Internet.

Xxx said...

To further prove the connections between the Hindus and the Abrahamic Jews, I want to bring up the DNA findings of the Chitpavan Brahmins of India, who are really Sarasvats. Their DNA shows that they are closely related to the Ashkenazi Jews. Not only that, but their surnames and customs are similar.

The following is what I clipped out of the Chitpavans’ website. You can go to this website yourself if you like, to get the whole story, which is quite fascinating”

“…even as I write this draft in English, or I speak English, or say, I have high tea in the afternoon with scones, and I attend services at an Anglican church do not make me an Englishman. This could be just a cultural influence. But if you, in addition, match my DNA with an English ancestry then it is an entirely different story. Similar is the case here.). Our Y chromosome analysis provides the following proof: several of our Chitpavan Y chromosome samples show three to five mutation separation of twelve markers from Ashkenazi population from Poland and Ukraine around the city of Dneproprtrosk. Several of our Y chromosome samples (Kit no. 2554, 3966, 3967) are three to five mutations away from three people from the heart of Romuva territory of Belarus and Latvia. Although occasionally similar mutations can occur by statistical chance it is unlikely that several of them will match to the same area. What this indicates is perhaps two thousand to three thousand years ago Romuvas, Chitpavans, and Ashkenazi Jews evolved probably from the same stock of original people, and they had a genetic bond and not just cultural exchange.”

Chitpavan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chitpavan said...


Study of samples of 20 Chitpavan Brahmins? Just 20 out of a supposed population of 3-5 lakhs? Same for Somlnali and others. You have read what you wanted and missed comments by her on Maratha Chitpavan historic connection. Plus many other points in my long noting's. Sorry. No point with this lopsided discussion. Thanks for cherrypicking but the points serve no purpose even discounting the fact that genetic haplotype studies is a nascent branch of science and yet not worthy of reliability. Statistical methods? That too for just a sample of 30÷300000= 1÷10000. Just one person out of 10000? Wonderfully great science discounting historicity and going in the direction of endless speculation. Thanks for your understanding and feedback. It shows how jaya and others have been instrumental and successful in giving such wrong impressions of foreign origins of chitpavam brahmins! Incidentally, I know many chitpavans who like to think they are brothers and cousins of Europeans!! Although they are regarded as not so by them.

Chitpavan said...

Just now came across a report in news on the complete genome of a Gujrathi person. See https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/secrets-of-3-genotypes-revealed/articleshow/63472557.cms?utm_campaign=andapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=whatsapp.com.
Note its last paragraph carefully with preceding two paras especially to understand the qualified reports such as this. That is about the complete genome study. Not just Myrna and y chromosome. When I had enquired about genetic study of my own sample, on the lines Jaya Fixity advocates Chitpavans to get done, I found their ifs and burs in similar reports fainting. That is no certainty whatsoever about their conclusions. Paying about 100£ was foolish to get just a guessing report from scientific analyses. The science of genome and its applications is raw and no large scale studies of any groups of people on similar lines have been made thus far. May be in coming 100 or 200 years with a huge data base if built, it may be possible to predict genetic links of two peoples probably more probabilistically. That science is just in the making very elementary and without requisite data base to analyse properly.

Chitpavan said...

About actual reports and type of information one gets from these studies, pl read and understand what the following blogs say:
Genetic studies
***
1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired.com/story/you-can-get-your-whole-genome-sequenced-but-should-you/amp#ampshare=https://www.wired.com/story/you-can-get-your-whole-genome-sequenced-but-should-you
***
2. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/5gkbkb/personal-genomics-companies-23andme#ampshare=https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gkbkb/personal-genomics-companies-23andme
3. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2014/04/17/trace-your-genetic-ancestry-through-national-geographics-genographic-project/amp/#ampshare=https://www.brookings.edu/blog/techtank/2014/04/17/trace-your-genetic-ancestry-through-national-geographics-genographic-project/

Chitpavan said...

Genetic ancestry testing has a number of limitations. Test providers compare individuals' test results to different databases of previous tests, so ethnicity estimates may not be consistent from one provider to another. Also, because most human populations have migrated many times throughout their history and mixed with nearby groups, ethnicity estimates based on genetic testing may differ from an individual's expectations. In ethnic groups with a smaller range of genetic variation due to the group's size and history, most members share many SNPs, and it may be difficult to distinguish people who have a relatively recent common ancestor, such as fourth cousins, from the group as a whole.
****
Excerpted from

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/testing/ancestrytesting

Xxx said...

Chitpavan Brahmins are a sub-group among Brahmins(Orthodox Hindus) of India.

Chitpavan Brahmins of Maharashtra claim to have arrived in India via a ship wreck- thousands of years ago.
Y chromosome of Chitpavan brahmins contains a Cohenim haplotype unique to jewish priest class. My personal opinion is that the Tishi of Chitpavans is a much higher origin- but there may be some exchange of genetic material 10-15 thousand years ago in Anatolia region.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/93546

Submitted by Sudhir Damle (United States), May 18, 2007 at 14:06

In this string I found a some comments and hypothesis on Chitpavan Bhramins from India and concluded with the comment that DNA tests on this community will establish their true lineage. I happen to be a member of this community and did have my DNA tested recently and the tests point out two things. Origin being somewhere fram the Balkans/Turkey in Europe and the male "Y" chromosone that we inherit from our fathers to be that of the "Cohen" lineage. The Cohens being the Jewish priests. So the comment about the Chitpavans being white Jews who were accepted as Hindus is very close to an uncomfortable truth.

http://forums.sulekha.com/forums/coffeehouse/brahmins-were-jews-befre-801966.htm

Xxx said...

Chitpavan literally translates as "pure hearted" in Sanskrit

Obviously they came historically in to the limelight on around 1800 AD, but it is most unlikely that they came to India in 1700 AD. Because in that small period of merely 100 years, it would have been impossible for others to consider and include them as Brahmins in India.

Obviously they returned back to India in around 1200 BCE from Egypt or around 550 BCE from Israel.

If they had returned back enmasse to India in around 1200 BCE, then like me they would have been well assimilated with the local population. However they perhaps returned late around 550 BCE and in complete isolation, hence although completely accepted today but still other Maharashtrian people look to them and talk about them with some amount of awe. They are definitely considered to be intelligent.

Chitpavan said...

No point carrying the dialogue further. None has presented many facts as in the two books on Chitpavans origins that we started with. Don't want to repeat my comments on genetics. If there is any historical evidence of their migrations, the proponents of foreign roots should present it and refute each and every statement of the author in his Chitpavan origins book. Until dome very capable person does it convincingly, no point us least studied persons disputing over the matter. Thanks and good bye.

Chitpavan said...

You said
"If they had returned back enmasse to India in around 1200 BCE, then like me they would have been well assimilated with the local population."
I am interested in further elaboration of your statement. Who are you and from where your ancestors came that time ago? Also historical pointers to it and any evidence. Just for my knowledge. Which this community you are speaking about?
Thanks and regards.

Xxx said...

While Bene Israel in India have been a subject of intense research for historians
and anthropologists, rarely have the Chitapavan from the same Konkan region
been studied. Chitapavan have hazel eyes and fairer skin and like Ashkenazi Jews
have been immensely successful and have made remarkable contribution in nationbuilding.
Like the Ashkenazi Jews, the Chitpavans are known for high intelligence and beauty.
The Bene Israel claim that Chitpavans too were Jews who settled in Konkan from later
migration but converted to Hinduism. Chitpavans, known as Konkanastha Brahmins,
originally belonged to the Chiplun(Chitpolan) and Ratnagiri part of the Konkan Coast,
but spread to Pune, parts of Maharashtra, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh Recent genetic study to find out the genetic genealogy in fact has established that the
Chitpavans have affinity with the Ashkenazi Jews from the Caucasus.

Xxx said...

The Kashmiri Pandits are a bradycephalic people, I.e. with broad, alpine type of heads and faces, and are said to be descended from an alpine race from Central Asia; whereas, it is observed that there two typical physiognomic forms among the Chitpavans. Some are broad -headed and large-eyed like most of the Kashmiri Pandits. But some others have Nordic Greek like long heads and faces! Therefore, there is an alternative theory that they have descended from the Ashkenazi Jews. GC Ghurye, author of the book ‘Races and Castes in India’ speculates the likelihood that the Chitpavans may be a mixture of an Alpine Scytho-Dravidian and Nordic Aryan race who arrived at the Western Coast of India from the Middle East in the 2nd millennium BC.

Xxx said...

In the roots web forum, one Elizabeth has written the following email.

"I have been working with Don Yates to get a better picture of my autosomal DNA results and so far one really remarkable finding has occurred. Using a set of 9 CODIS (i.e., FBI forensic) markers, my closest match out of 179 worldwide populations is the Chitpavan Brahmins who live on the western coast of India........"

In another letter she writes

"When I compared the patterns obtained for my parents, my brother and myself, I was able to trace specific affinities from each parent into us, the children For example, my father had a strong match with Chitpavan Brahmins and Rwandan Hutus (both of which I 'picked up' from him), but my brother did not inherit these markers or matches. Instead he acquired a stronger affiinity with Hispanic Americans from my mother. It is also very important to research the history of each of the populations to which you have a strong affinity. They may not be what you believed in terms of ancestry and this may be why they seem "odd" or "incorrect" to you. For example, Chitpavan Brahmins -- although located physically in South Asia --are not 'from' India, genetically speaking. They only arrived there in the 1500's and have ancestry from Iberia, Poland, Turkey and Iran. In fact, they have some genetic affinity with Khazar descended Ashkenazi Jews. Hence, their presence in my profile and my Dad's is consistent with other matches we have with Polish/Serbia/Byelorussian populations and Andalusian/Spanish/Portuguese populations."

Later on she clarifies that her family is not descendants of Chitpavans who migrated to USA but rather her ancestors and Chitpavans appeared from common group of ancestors

"the most fascinating "experiment" I've done recently with autosomal testing was to locate a Chitpavan Brahmin man who was living here in the US and obtain a DNA sample from him. You may recall that Chitpavan Brahmin was my strongest ethnic autosomal match. Prior autosomal testing on the Chitpavans (conducted by biogeneticists) had indicated that they migrated to India from the Balkans, Poland, the Mediterranean and the Middle East and were possibly of Jewish/Moorish/Khazar mixed ancestry, with little actual Indian subcontinent ancestry. Well, our Chitpavan sample's results were exactly consistent with this -- he matched Balkans, Iran, Turkey, Poland and Portugal. This meant to me that I did not have India/Pakistani ancestry, per se, but rather matched the Chitpavan community living in India through a process of genetic convergence -- that is, we both descended from the same groups of ancestors, e.g., Polish, Balkan, Portuguese, etc. It is possible that the Chitpavans emerged from some of the same Diasporic forces that helped form the Melungeon community."

Unknown said...

Hello!
Much of what I know has been already said in some way or the other in the comments. Ill try not to repeat.

I was reading the 'Syrian Christians' or 'St.Thomas Christians' or 'Nasranis' of Kerala.

>The link that ties these two Brahmin groups (i.e. St thomas christians and namboothiri) is that it is believed that Namboothiri brahmans were converted to St thomas christians. This belief is very much instilled in some families of the St thomas tradition till date

>Both Chitpavans and Namboothiris (along with bhumihar, tyagi. mohyal etc) consider Parshuram to be their mool purusha

>Namboothiris believe that Parshuram brought them to Kerala after drying up of the saraswati along with the written form of vedas/upanishads. Chitpavans have their ship wreck tale of Konkan and assimilation of the Chitpavans into Hindu community (funeral pyre story)

Personally I believe that all of the brahmins with Parshuram affiliation are from the same stock of people; albeit the migration of these people has happened in different points in time (Assyrian invasion of Judea in 727 BC, Roman attacks around 550 bc; Bar khokba around 125 AD; Thomas Cana getting jews by SHIP in around 350 AD)

All these waves are basically from the region of Georgia, Syria, Armenia (some more nations around combined known as Judea?).

Interactions with natives (also migrants from other global places such as rome, greek) and years of assimilation have resulted in the defragment of DNA's. Hence no solid proof will EVER exist.

No comment on the jews part of it.. Because JEW was a culture and this culture is what grouped together people conforming to it. So actually who is jew??? (I mean Abraham and Sara! wtf!! compare with Brahmna and Sara-swati)

Stay united.
Jai Hind. Jai Maharshtra


Unknown said...

i would agree to Sanjay Kale with regards to Chitpavans relation to Askenazi because i back trace it to the legend of Nimrod (Babylonia)

Descent of Nimrod had 2 groups i.e. Magor (Magyar) & Hunor (Hunas).
Hunor's descendent were known as Khazar..and Khazar's descendants are the ASHKENAZI (I guess the Ashkenazi speak Yiddish form of Hebrew?)

Magor's descendants are Sephardic! (they speak hebrew)

Xxx said...

Dear All

One more proof i found in internet..even though this is individual opinion..the writer patwardhan a pure chitpavan clearly states he is ashkenazi jew and has powerful desire from isreal..i am just a armchair researcher retired with tons of hours in my hands...i have no grudge against anybody...


hemchandra.patwardhan says:
December 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm
we have sheperdic jews in india, basically from mesopotomia, inter married with local peoples, but there is a genetic /culture similarity with a gp of maharastrian brahmins called konkanista brahmins who originated on the konkan coast south of mumbai/bombay, who appear to be the decendents of askanzi jew sailors ship wrecked on the konkan coast, who intermarried with the local tribals about 1ooo years ago.. I BELONG TO THAT group of peoples and we are blue /green eyed generally fair peoples, I would like to know if there is any truth of our jewish origins,even though we are hindus now?please respond cause I feel a deep affinity for isreal!

Chitpavan said...

Can he specify what is meant by Askenazi Jews vs sShephardic Jews? What traits they have? How they could learnt Vedas in the best of traditions which most other Brahmins' communities cannot pronounce properly, for example, the Deshasthas pronounce ष as ख? But Chitpavans' pronunciation is clear. What research Shri Patwardhan and others claiming ancestry from Jews have exactly done? Just saying something and adducing logical proof are different things. Again the Jews who landed due to Shipbreak and the Parsis similarly are even today distinct communities, unrelated to Brahmins. Then which Jews became Brahmins? The Cochin Jews did not become Namboodris,or have they, in the opinion of such opinion makers? Plain thing is, actually, without going into details, is that some people jealous of Chitpavans, started branding them as CryptoJews, with a view to target them by Mohemmedans and European Christians, so that they may not get placements in top positions world over.

Xxx said...


Except from the book by prof "KEVIN MCDONALD" - "END OF WHILE PEOPLE SERIES" where last sentence ..chitpavans are referred as crypto jews.. standard disclaimer applies..I have no bias against any community..I am retired Engineer worked 15 years in middle east retired early with Tons of time on my hands"


Franklin Ryckaert

December 1 , 2014 - 8:43 pm | Permalink



@ China Visitor

You depict China as a kind of "closed society" and therefore impossible to be
penetrated by the Jews. That may seem plausible but you forget the power of
mimicry Jews have developed over the centuries. In the case of China they will
intermarry with Chinese to such an extent that they will become
indistinguishable from the autochtonous population without giving up their
sense of identity . Add to that the adoption of Chinese names and there will be
no obstacles left to become secretly the new elite of China and the Chinese
will not notice it.

To a certain extent they already have successfully practised this tactic in
another "closed society" : Islam. In the 1 7th century a messianic Jewish sect in
the Turkish empire was converted by force to islam. Their descendants
retained secretly their Jewish identity and are rumored to be the hidden elite of
present day Turkey. They are called the Donmeh. Atta Turk, father of modern
Turkey, is rumored to have been such a Donmeh.

Jews have even penetrated the closed caste society of India. The Chitpavan
Brahmins of Maharashtra are said to be crypto- Jews.

Chitpavan said...

1. What does "standard disclaimer applies." mean?
2. Crypto means - Crypto | Definition of Crypto by Merriam-Webster
Crypto definition is - a person who adheres or belongs secretly to a party, sect, or other group.
3. Crypto Jews will mean one who is a Jew and practices Judaism secretly, though appearing outwardly as adhering to some other garb.
4. Which groups of the Chinese people/Turkik people/Chitpavans are positively identified as being Jews following Jewish religion secretly.Jews don't accept converts, as a rule. I am a Chitpavan and sure as I am, we DO NOT FOLLOW ANY JEWISH DENOMINATION, NOR ARE WE JEWS, IN ANY SENSE, NOR ARE WE RECOGNISED AS JEWS BY ISRAEL WHICH AT THE VERY FIRST OPPORTUNITY, RECKONS JEWS AND INVITES THEM TO ISRAEL. NO SUCH THING HAS EVER HAPPENED TO CHITPAVANS AND WILL NEVER OCCUR.
5. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_India gives details of all Jewish communities in India, including from Mizoram and Konkan. The Bene Israelis have lived in konkan for more than 100-1500 years. None of them has felt the need to disguise their jewish identity. Why would any Jew have felt need to be absorbed into Vedism, since Jews were not persecuted here in India. Feigning different identity has to have compelling circumstances. Dr. Vartak has clearcut shown that no foreigners and non Vedics could ever have become well learned Sanskrit speaking Brahmins ever.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

Film actresses like Usha Kiran Marathe, Madhuri Dixit, music director Sudhir Phadke, several hundred stage actors like Kashinath Ghanekar, Sharad Ponkshe, Dr. oak, . Their number is disproportionately higher than their population. Nearly equal number has migrated to USA, Canada, Europe and other countries.

It is wrong to link Swantantya Veer Savarkar to Gandhi murder. It was plotted by Apte and Godse.

Prof. V.C.Malshe said...

I was visiting Shree Parshuram Devsthan at Chiplun and bought a small booklet that described the landing of a group of males on western shore with their ship broken rescued by Bhagwan Parashuram. Some were dead and others rose due to heat from the pyre. It further says Bhagwan Parshuram settled them and got them married with locals. This is very important. All KBs today do not have typical features described elsewhere.
If we compare other communities that migrated like Parsees and Jews in Kerala , they all came with wives. Mothers preserve the mother tongue and culture. Where as we find Parsees still practising their faith faithfully and Kerela Jews still speaking their language ( that their brotgern in Israel do not understand) and some Goans speaking Portuguese we do not see KBs speaking any different language or display a different culture. They are completely local in their faith, culture, language, customs, literature and so forth. This may be a cause that the features do not exactly match. Jews are rich anywhere. Not so with KBs. They love money, But neither we see them struggling for earning nor accumulating beyond requirements. This effect may be due to local 50% genes. The character of Jews is way different. Jews are vengeful, inventive, uncompromising and extremely fond of money and they also spend it. I do not find these traits in KBs. No doubt they have an external gene of explorers not of concurrrs.

Kulkarni said...

We dont need you people we deshasta brahmin will happily suffer and thrive to make our country better

Chitpavan said...

What parochialism?

New said...

Firstly this blog is about kobras.so naturally kobra virtues will be talked about.if it is about marathis in general we willbtalk about marathi asmita etc

New said...

Who are you?is it a fake profile?

New said...

one typical characteristic of the caste..apla fayada baghane).i dont agree with this.again too genearalised.actually the reverse is true.chitpavans are the most ethical and honest people in india.have u seen any doing malpractice?corruption?Answer is NOP.

New said...

So finally what happened?did u marry a kobra girl?if yes congratulations if no then i say har kisiko nahi milata yaha kobra partner zindagime.khushnaseeb hair woh jinako mili hai ye bahaar zindagime.

New said...

If u dont believe in caste or not even conscious of or want to acknowledge ur identity as a kobra then why are u commenting here.strange.

New said...

As per my knowledge this theory applies to parsis as their population is very small and they already have intermarried with their relatives .both things are not present in kobra.so no problems in marrying within caste.in fact as far as possible we should try to marry within caste to preserve our genetic identity
We should learn here something from parasis or jews .

New said...

Ashkenazi origin of kobra.yes i do agree with this

New said...

Ashkenazi origin of kobra.yes i do agree with this

Brhamin said...

Sati brhaman hu grahwal ke itihas me gujrat se aa huai brhamin jati bati gayi hai
Kumuoni me bhi sati jati k brhamin hai
Rang rup to Jase aap ne batya hai same to chitpavan brhamin brown eyes fair skin clour
Sati cast ke bare me kuch batne ki kirpa kare

havelaughm said...

CDDeshmukh was CKP

chitpavanismbyjaydixit said...

well guys this thread is sleeping...i stick to my stand..kobras are ashkenazi jews..read my top comments where i have given tons of evidence 6 years earlier..